[Donn Hewes]

Hi Will, I do hope our comments are helpful, although sometimes it is hard to see how with so many variables. It makes for an interesting conversation if nothing else. At first glance Carl’s and my responses seem to be opposites, but really I think they are two sides of the same coin. Lately I find my self telling folks I am working that I am often going to give them two answers for each of their questions.

I think you picked up on the idea that there was room for both. Look at the horse (a new look) and thinking about does it need a little more pressure, or a little more release. That is the fun, challenge, and sometimes frustration of being a teamster.

I was just thinking, I have never really worked with a truly balky horse. I have worked with lots of animals that would hesitate to go, but that isn’t really the same as balky I don’t think. With animals that hesitate I sometimes increase the pressure, but usually the first thing I do is ask myself; am I or who ever is driving using the best possibly techniques for starting? Sometimes we get a little lax with our contact or the rhythm between voice and hands. When I pick up the lines and make contact with a horse that has been hesitating, I will hold slightly more contact on one side than the other (even if my desire is to go straight). A horse with it head turned will take a step just to get its feet back under it. I try not to release that contact until the animal is moving. My analogy for this is if we were standing side by side and we wanted to see who would move their feet. I would put a hand on your should and slowly start to push, that would shift you off balance and you would eventually move your foot. This has worked well for me with horses that were just making teamsters work too hard at getting them to go. Seems like your horse might be telling you more than that but maybe not.

[Donn Hewes]

In the last two days I wrote two great responses, but both were lost to the internet. Darn!

I think horse loggers have several reasons for using shoes, but they are very specific to their productive goals and working situations. In some cases horses may pull more logs in a day with shoes on. On some icy days shoes might be the only way you can work. In some environments rocks and slopes might dictate shoes.

For most farmer – loggers that do not need to make a production quota each day skidding logs with out shoes is fine. I have skidded many big logs out of the woods with barefoot horses. There are a few days when I don’t work due to ice, and there are a few times when I have chosen to take a longer route rather than pull something up a steep short hill.

A cart, log arch, or some other means of getting the front of the log off the ground, however is essential for working with logs bigger than small firewood poles. These tools are what multiply the power of the horses and preserves the woodland soils. good luck.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Will, I hope you don’t mind if I ask a few questions. What is your goal? What work will they be doing? How much and how often? In my opinion round pens are a double edge sword. Like any tool they can help us achieve our goal or sometimes become a distraction or worse. For an animal with little or no relationship with people, or perhaps the wrong relationship with people; a round pen can be used as a barrier to push against so the animal will reverberate back to the human. With some skill and care this can teach an animal to look to humans for leadership. As someone to follow.

Animals that already know this are often taken back into the round pen by folks that are attached to the security it provides. This can lead to an animal questioning the leadership. A sort of “why are we here?” moment. Be sure to provide leadership. Know where you are going. Challenge the animal.

With a trained animal that has had some time off, I would make almost no exceptions, maybe a little patience, But I would expect them to know everything they ever did and do everything they ever did. If they pulled logs before, and I was behind them today, I would ask them to go. Resistance to go would be met with pressure from me (carefully placed and modulated) to make them go until they move. Don’t retrain them for two months off, just put them back to work. that is my two cents from a distance. Easy to say and still hard work sometimes. It easily could be more complicated than I make it.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi Fiordowner, I am not sure why it is difficult to post pictures. Could you send it to me in an email and I will try to post it from here. my email is: tripletree@frontiernetdotnet

[Donn Hewes]

Walt, Thanks for sharing that. I had some mixed experiences with these set ups many years ago and never reconsidered them until now. Like anything else, it is just a tool with which we can hopefully express our intentions to the animal. With any tool (round pen, rope halter, whip or stick) the secret is understanding how to use it to say what you mean. Often the less tools you use the less things you have to figure out before you begin to express yourself.

I think the mistakes last time where both mechanical and mental. The mechanical part was in working with a friend who had used his setup on a couple of big horses successfully. While it worked fine to pick up the feet of a young shire horse the lighter, faster, mule kept on going. I think that setup was trying to pick up both front feet and didn’t have the leverage to do it. Plus I wouldn’t want to pick up both feet today. Just one – just enough to stop them.

We will rig one up today, and if it looks good we will try it on the mule tomorrow. The mule by the way is not the one mentioned above. She has worked well this season; she has made a couple mistakes and so have we; but over all she has done well. I have another three year old that really needs something. I hope this is it.

[Donn Hewes]

In the gear box I use motor oil as Jay described. It is easy to way over fill them. The gear boxes rely on the spinning gears to send it every where. 4″ in the bottom of the gear box will cover half of the lowest gear. That will be more than enough. The cutter bar is another matter. Many different opinions about how and when to oil that. While I will use a great deal of oil in the shop just to see how loose and free the knife is, I usually rely on the moisture in the grass to lubricate the cutting. This might vary in different regions depending on how much sand is in the soil and other local factors. Regardless of how or when you oil the knife there other places to oil or grease. In the dolly wheels there are two grease fittings. These could be greased twice a year for average use. I use an oil can on the lifting parts and hing parts occasionally. By far the most important point to oil on a mower (and it should be oiled every time you go out) is the ball joint where the knife attaches to the pitman stick. Based on many broken mowers and parts sold these are the hardest working parts. They are designed to be held tight enough for no play or slop and still retain the ability to shift slightly with every stroke. you will find the ball on new knifes worn away by a tight pitman clamp without oil.

[Donn Hewes]

Sorry I didn’t understand the question at first. We don’t get a lot of those kind of questions! As a theoretical question I would would rather make a move with a team of horses or mules (but that is just me!). I would not invest in draft animals today based on which would best suite this purpose though. I am hopeful that we can, and are rebuilding small local communities that are resilient to face the challenges of the future. I think horses, oxen and goats can all help us do that.

Just added four goats last week. In a testament to their ability to travel they were over a mile away after two days!

[Donn Hewes]

Carl, That is awesome. I have been thinking of making a list like that. number of logs at each length. I think when i talked with him a couple months ago the price was 400 (or maybe 450) and I just took the higher price for estimating. I will let you know. I think I will try to get a hold of them this week.

[Donn Hewes]

Actually I think I can buy the logs at .45 cent and get them sawn for .25 cents, but I still need to figure out how many extra logs to buy. That would be .70 cents.

[Donn Hewes]

Jared, You ask really good questions. She is three y/o (four in Sept.). About 16hh. Maybe 1300#. She is a Suffolk mule that was born here. She was easy to start; last year she plowed snow, pulled logs and raked hay. She didn’t try to run with anything last year. She was open faced all year. I did feel her tense up with traffic and dogs, and I was very careful in minimizing her exposure to those things. I also didn’t have anyone else driving her much last year.

She has run three times this year. She has been working regularly at all forms of hay making, plowing, discing, etc. After the second mishap in March (I was frost seeding and after finishing 15 acres, I stopped to pick up some supplies I left by the edge of the field. She saw me with a rubber bucket and bag of seed in my hand, and lines in one hand, and off the cart and decided it was time to go. After that I put blinders on her.

You don’t have to, nor should you feel like a ticking time bomb. the key is prevention (easy for me to say!). Animals well prepared, people well prepared, and equipment well prepared for what is being asked of them is the best prevention.

Young animals at work can be a challenge as you ask them to do things they haven’t done before.

[Donn Hewes]

Here is the material list I have been working on. I didn’t post it here in the hopes that anyone would spend much time working on it, but I thought folks might find it interesting. I haven’t ordered logs yet but am just about ready to do that. Still lots of work to do for a Nov 4th barn raising. There are somethings on here that I already plan to change a little.

Hay barn material list 36’ x 60’ 2160 sf.

Foundation: 20 sonotubes, concrete, drainage

Metal roofing 22.5’ x 2 sides x 63’ = 2835 sf.

Plates for sonotubes. Black Locust 2 x 6, 2’

Main beams: ash 10” x 10” 16 – 15’ owner
Rim joist 2 x 8 8 – 15’ 160 bf
Floor joist: 2 x 8 154 – 12.6’ (16” oc + 16) 2581 bf

Wall studs 2 x 6 12 – 15’ (8’ oc) 180 bf
Wall Bracing 2 x 6 24 – 18’ 432 bf
Wall Purlins 2 x 4 36 – 15’ 356 bf

Truss parts: 5 trusses
Jack post 2 x 8 10 – 20’ apx 266 bf
King post 2 x 8 20 – 22’ 586 bf
Double stud 2 x 6 20 – 15’ 300 bf
Web 2 x 8 10 – 14’ 186 bf
Web 2 x 6 10 – 14’ 140 bf

Beams: 4 bays
Box beam 2 x 8 16 – 15’ 319 bf
Triple beam 2 x 8 24 – 15’ 479 bf
Ridge beam 2 x 8 4 – 15’ 80 bf

Rafters 2 x 6 66 – 12’ (2’ oc + 6) 792 bf
2 x 6 66 – 14’ (2’ oc + 6) 924 bf

Roof Purlins 2 x 4 100 – 16’ (2’ oc) 1056 bf

Facia 5/4 x 6 16 – 16’ 169 bf

Siding 1 x 10 1800 + 1440 3240 bf

Flooring 1 x 10 (2200 bf) owner

Total BF 12,249 bf

12,861 (plus 5%) at .85 = $10,932

[Donn Hewes]

I think Maryrose is of two minds about loading the hay wagons. In years past it has certainly been a point of pride for her, and she has kicked many folks off as she claimed the title for her self. Bu now she realizes some of the benefits of letting others do some of the work.

Jay, your work is going great. I think we should put a track up in your barn!

I had better hurry up and grow some grass so we have something to mow for the workshop!

[Donn Hewes]

I have been very impressed by the spirit and energy from the Morgan horses. Not unlike many of the smaller breeds of draft horses, their willingness to pull can be amazing. That said I think it is still important to match the size of the animal with the work we ask of them. I have seem some good horses soured because they were 1000# animals and all the farm had was discs, plows and spreaders for a big team. These were horses with a lot of heart but they found that every job was was hard when in reality some jobs should be a little easier than others. One advantage of the manure spreader is that you can fill it as much as you want. That can give you some flexibility and the option of expanding to a three horse hitch.

[Donn Hewes]

Here are some still photos too.

[Donn Hewes]

I have only used one a little, and have spent more time trying to get rolling coulters to fit a walking p[low which can be hard. I would say it needs to go forward somewhere right over the tip of the plow or forward slightly. Depending on soils, crops residue or sod, the jointer will change the draft of the plow. raising or lower the jointer might improve the draft. Alos in some rock conditions some rock just want to get stuck between the jointer and the plow (shale), and raising it a little in those conditions can help to. Good luck. Donn

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