[Donn Hewes]

Just kidding, actually I have been working the whole time. I think in alot of cases the horses would go back to work with little problem, and in a few you might find problems that were a result of the four years off or a cause of it. I think you could tell alot if you could drive them before you bought them.
When I brought them home I would go through all the training steps as if they were green horses. Some might say I was waisting my time if they are already trained, but i can accomplish several things. First off, if they turn out to be well trained and ready for work they will go through the beginner training very quickly and show me what they know. Next it is possible that well trained animals have gotten a little rusty and this is a good time to introduce your self, set new ground rules, and give them a refresher. Finally it is a safe way find out if they have real lapses in training that can be corrected now, before it becomes a problem.

[Donn Hewes]

I think the objective of a sustainable ag program should be the developement of future farmers that are aware of the issues of sustainablity and prepared / motivated to seek ever more sustainable models of production. I think this is best achieved with an experimental farm. There is still a lot of work / research to be done to make all our farms more sustainable. This work could simultanouesly serve the students and the broader community with the knowledge that Agricultural Sustainability is likely to be a life long persuit. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Well, I made a really dumb mistake. My friend that has Percheron/Morgans for sale actually has four, but the ones he wants to sell are 1 and 2, not the 3 and 4 year olds. We talked about all the horses so much that I must have gotten confused about what was for sale. They are still nice horses I believe and not started in training at all. Sorry, Donn

[Donn Hewes]

I have wanted to add to this thread for a while but never had the time. I like to think of our energy use this way. There is what we used before, what we use today is often less as we make changes to infrastructure and methods of farming that need less energy inputs, and there is what we will do in the future as we continue toward what we think a sustainable farm should be. This approach saves me from trying to do it all at once. We use a fair amount of electricity (milk pump, milk coolers, freezers for meat), and over time I believe I can cut it to a third of what it was when we started. This kind of conservation should always be undertaken before other more expensive methods of generating are employed. So far we have added a cheese cave whch has cut the needed refrigeration. This year I will build another cave for blue cheese. We are also starting to experiment with ice. In the future I think we will find a way to use ice to cool our milk.
While our home is not off the grid, we did build it to use very little energy. It is heated with wood but needs very little. No fire for the last couple of days as the sun was out. We heat our hot water with wood in the winter and the sun in the fall, summer, and spring. No back up! We often use an electric tea kettle if we don’t have hot water from the fire.
Hay making is another example of being in the middle of a long process of change. We use to use more tractors. Today I use a gas powered forecart pulled by horses and mules. Five or ten years from now I may be using the sickle bar mower again and making loose hay. I know I will still be changing the system as I go along.
We do have a little problem of gas for driving to town. For the moment We share one vehicle, (plus a motorcycle for fair weather) and that helps us conserve trips a little. I do ride a bicycle to work occasionally, but I must confess it is hard to get excited about a 9 mile ride after farming all day. Here again the future may look very different. Today our idea of selling our farm products locally is the Ithaca Farmers Market that is 30 miles away. Right now it is a great market for us and we sell 90 percent of what we produce there, but someday we may have to sell to our immediate neighbors. We may have to change what we sell to meet their demands. It will be interesting.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi david, Some of the equipment you want is hard to find, or not really developed yet. I & J Machine in Lancaster, Pa. has done alot of work with Hydraulic acumulators. These carts develope/store Hyd. pressure while they move and then can use it to raise a plow or what ever. There are also carts with electric/hyd. lifting capability. I am not sure a four foot bar will give you an eight foot implement. If it does then it is not that hard to make a regular mower into a one horse mower. They are also starting to make a mower for orchards and vineyards that has a sickle bar right infront of the teamster. I think I saw this in an SFJ last year about a demo out in California. Don’t know if that helps at all.

[Donn Hewes]

Hi David, As my wife and I love talking about raising sheep we might be hard pressed to charge for it, but we would be glad to tell you about what we have done, and why, and what we think we have learned so far. Just for starters, our lambs start with all the disadvantages over most other lambs – because we are a dairy, our lambs spend about one month with their mothers. Then they are 100% grass-fed. We only worm individuals who show clinical signs of parasitism. We do all of this through feeding the best grass and hay that we can, and relying on body condition and over all health to support the growth of the animal. Our live weights are light by some standards, 90 to 100 lbs. but our customers are very happy with the meat and continue to return for more. If you want more info feel free to email us or post it here – we would be happy to discuss it here.

[Donn Hewes]

Along with many of the titles above that I use and lend regularly, I would like to add three more that have been of particular use to me.
First, two by Steve Bowers. I found out about Steve a couple of years ago, while I was trying start the animals that would replace my first good team. You know, the one’s that got you your start, helped you learn, and eventually made you think you knew it all. In ‘Farming with Horses’ written with Marlen Steward, and ‘A teamsters view, More and Different’ he explained a new approach to communicating with the lines, that resonated with what I wanted for my future partners. It has been a slow process to retrain my self and my animals, but I am a believer in his basic premis. These books are very clearly written and can help in understanding and correcting such simple problems as The lateral alignment of the working team, and other things like that. Unfortnately Steve Bowers died last year. My ideas about lines communication and line pressure really come from this source.
For mules and donkeys, I like Meridith Hodges ‘Training Mules and Donkeys, a logical approach to Longears’. She talks alot about how they differ from horses, and how they are similar. She works on a lot of ground training that might add a little twist to what you would do with a horse. She does some beautiful work with Dressage and jumping, which isn’t farming but it is fun to see how smart, graceful and athletic these animals can be. I pull it out just to show people the pictures!

[Donn Hewes]

George and Kristan, it sounds to me like you are asking the right questions. from this distance we can throw out ideas all day and that might have nothing to do with what is actually going on. haveing more people validate or question what’s up while they are with you, working is the best help. Mentoring, right. keep up the good work. I don’t know what kind of logs you have, etc. But I incourage you to do some logging while walking if it is practical. Better chance to send good signals to the animals and insist they walk because you must. Also, a buck back strap probably won’t improve your or your horses ability to start a load smoothly. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

As a farmer, not horse logger, I think skidding wood is one of the best training tools for young animals and young teamsters. To do it well requires that you and your animals continue to hone your skills. Walking while driving, turning in tight places, loads of varying weight, calmly waiting for hooking and unhooking. One skill it may take a life time to perfect is starting the load smoothly with control and power, with out waisted energy or strain on gear/animals. I think of it as a two step process, the first is a preparatory command, that would put the animal into the bit and ready to go, followed as soon as the animals are ready with the command to go. There are lots of different ways to accomplish that, for some the names of the animals are the prepare command and the kiss is the go command. Others would do it with the lines alone. The lines in prep should be taking up the slack so just as they are being told ‘get ready’ they are being told ‘not yet’. The line command for go should be the controled release of that presure. What makes this difficult is so many commands in close succesion. and making sure each individual is ready for the next. Timing is critical, a split second too long and the animal that got ready is now backing while the other is still trying to get ready. This should be fun and something you can try and make perfect with every log you pull. That is what I do. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

Wow, a lot of great advice on bitting. Unfortunately you have to sort through it all and figure out what it means for you and your horse. Two thoughts and I will go on to buck back straps. First is that changing the bit on on a horses that has been using the same one for a long time can be difficult. Not that I wouldn’t try but that I would view it as retraining the animal. I would expect it to take time to get the desired response from what amount to a new set of signals. I my case I went back to the bit the animals came from. I haven’t used any jointed bits, that would include a twisted wire bit, I just don’t like the way they fit in the mouth. I think switching to a levered bit would be an easier transition.
Yes, I have used a buck back successfully. They can help with a young animal that is in training, one you are a little unsure of. Some folks hook to the snaffle ring on the bit, (no leverage) others put them on a halter worn under the bridle. I have tried both and found some animals responded better to one than the other. Today I would probably put it on the bit first. Safety points to consider, number one they do nothing without a load. So if you are going ‘back to the barn’ this may not help. This includes a forecart that is not pulling anything. this includes any downhill work that takes the load off the tugs. Finally it creates another layer of mystery between you and the animal you are trying to communnicate with. I would suggest that it is a back up system that should be without tension until the animal misbehaves and you put him/her quickly back in their place with line communications. As with any aid there is the question of how are you going to get rid of it. Don’t get stuck on it. Having said all that they are not a bad tool.
You mentioned the problem of be gentle leading to the animal going faster and faster. Two quick thoughts, Before you can be gentle you must have control. You need to enforce a walk with whatever bit you have. They will respond to that. The thing to do, and not always easy by the way, is turn a constant pressure into pulses of pressure until they start to walk with the desired pressure. That way every pulse is a signal, an opportunity for them to respond. Constant pressure quickly becomes not a signal but noise which hides the signal of what you want. I have even gone so far as to try to never make like pulses exactly even on both sides. Left, right, left, another gentling effect that says you will listen to me. Good luck and keep us posted on how the horse does. Keep asking questions. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

I suppose there aren’t very many sheep dairies in the west. We milk sheep so we can make really good cheese. There is a long tradition in the Mediterranean and Eastern Europe of milking sheep for cheesemaking. Sheep milk is much higher in fat and protein than cow milk Our top producing ewes will give just over 2 quarts of milk at the peak of their lactation (which is shorter and much more seasonal than a cow’s). I milked (and loved) cows for years, but I am a total convert to sheep. I just love ’em. They are tons of fun, easy to handle, have an intact flock mentality, and their milk just can’t be beat. We milk, by the way, by machine. We have a parlor that holds six animals at a time and we run two claws into a bucket. We milk about 40 ewes, which is a tiny flock, but there is a sheep dairy in New York that milks over 800, plus buys in (frozen) sheep milk from other producers across the country. I hope this helps shed some light on us quirky sheep milkers. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it! Maryrose (Donn’s wife)

[Donn Hewes]

You pose an interesting question about ensuring that our forage maintains a high sugar content in order to feed lactating animals. There are a couple of pieces of our silviculture strategy to speaks to this. One is that these trees are very young and won’t provide shade for many years. The other main point is that we are choosing tall trees that will provide high shade that will move throughout the day. All of our pastures get rotated into hay production so we want to be able to have sufficient sun to dry the mowed hay. Another point for those of us with a slightly apocalyptic bent is that by the time these trees mature we may well be living in a significantly different climate than we now experience. I have to give credit to Donn for his long term thinking — I mostly want to provide some shade and browse for my milking flock, but Donn is a much bigger thinker than I am. Maryrose (Donn’s wife)

[Donn Hewes]

In the late eighties I met Clarence Stancil shortly after I started doing farm work with horses and mules. He was near eighty then and in his youth worked many years as a horse logger in the wilds of Wa. State when horse logging was just logging. He was the type who did not say much and spoke so softly that you had to lean over to hear him, but if you spent time with him, as I did, you learn a ton, just by watching how he moved around animals and how they moved around him. Next week I am going on cacation in Wa. where I will visit Clarence and silently thank him for about the millionth time.
I believe those of us who are actively using our horses on farms and woods and roads today, owe a debt to these mentors who are not our parents but nonetheless choose to pass on this craft to us. I think we are fast approaching the time where we should start to think about how we can provide this service to the next generation.
In my youth I had the great pleasure of becoming a rock climber and a mountain climber. While I did have a few mentors who took me to the White Mts. in the winter at age fifteen and taught me a lot, much of my first experiences in rock climbing were with my best friend and a rope we bought and learned to tie around our waist from looking at a book. We would imitate things we saw others do and slowly we learned and grew into competent climbers. On our first trip to the Grand Teton the ranger asked us if we were sure we belonged there. We went the summit a week later after sitting out a storm that chased everyone else from the Mt. We were too dumb to know we should go down, but the next day we had the summit to ourselves. While these days are some of my fondest memories, it is not how I would recommend someone learn about the fine sport of climbing. Nor is it how they should start driving horses. Some will succeed but it not a good experience for many, not to mention what it means for the animals.
I fully realize that good mentors may be far away or hard to find but I think they are vital to our growing community. Some of you may find one next door. Some may have to go out of your way to visit your mentor or get them to come over. You may have to work for them first. Then they can come and help you for a day. People ask how do I know the mentor is good when I am green? Their advice could be good or it could be terrible, how would I know. It is a good question, and there is no perfect answer. I would perfer a mentor who is currently using their animals regularly, althought an oldtimer can be invaluable. If they are currently using their animals you can start by working with them there. Is the teamster calm when they are working, are the animals calm when working. At first you may not know exactly how or why but it should look, sound, and feel comfortable. If it doesn’t that person may not be ready to be a mentor, as much as they may want to. Well I went on at length, but it is a subject I feel strongly about. Donn

[Donn Hewes]

I think planting trees will become one of my lifes works. There is a lot to learn about what species, how to start them, how to work around them when they are young, and where to plant them. Right now I have a forty acre field with a long term lease, and no trees. I could plant 1,000 trees out there and only divide it six 6 acre paddocks, and at that the trees will twenty feet apart. that is my goal for the next five years. this year I will plant 200+ in a tree nursery.

[Donn Hewes]

Carl, Bringing the equipment is pretty easy, it would roll onto a small trailer behind a toyota p/u.
I would love to work with a small group to talk about (or demonstrate) starting a green horse. As you suggest, there are pros and cons of different ways of going about it. To do some kind of demonstration would require a little more coordination. My suggestion would be to put a few people together by phone or email that are interested in working on something like this and let them come up with some ideas for how to organize it. Donn

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