[Gulo]

Yes, that’s our place – our old one, we’re on a new one now, off the plains and into the foothills.

For prints or Soper’s art, I would just run some keywords through google and see if there are any out there. I don’t know if Chris Beetle’s Gallery has any prints, they hold his copyright. http://www.chrisbeetles.com

Cheers!

[Gulo]

I have it too, and recommend it as well!

We offer it here:

http://www.newfarmer.ca/general-store.html

Thanks…

[Gulo]

I ride my Clydes infrequently, when there’s opportunity. They say the have an extremely smooth gait. Perhaps that’s why Clydes seem to be the most popular of the draft breeds for riding.

On the subject of which, check this out: http://www.cumbrianheavyhorses.com/

I notice in the old draft horse art of George Soper, which you should sample if you haven’t,
http://www.newfarmer.ca/3/post/2011/12/george-soper-captured-the-heart-and-soul-of-an-era.html
that many folks rode their drafts to and from the fields in the old times. Another thing i noticed from these depictions from life (Soper was there on hand in the day, with his easel and tools,) is how many people led their horses whilst pulling for certain tasks, rather than driving them with lines. Interesting.

[Gulo]

@KC63 32543 wrote:

Hi
I traveled a lot in Nepal, Yaks are used over 3,500 metres, below that Dzo’s (Yak x Cow) and below them pure cows. The ones I met on the trail you gave them space or they made their own space!!

I expect they’d just walk right around you. I find them much calmer than cows, and much smarter, as has been the experience of others i know who’ve had both.

The wild yak is a huge animal, like a bison, and they are reintroducing wild genes to the Asian herd.

I’ve seen them crossed with bison, but the resulting animals i’ve witnessed are very nervous. I’ve also seen crosses to highland cattle, the females then crossed back to yak, the resulting offspring being basically larger yaks with a vaguely brindle coat. Beautiful.

I recently blogged on yaks, if anyone’s interested:
http://www.newfarmer.ca/3/post/2012/02/the-cow-that-should-have-been.html

[Gulo]

Groundwork is part of the equation, too. And just hanging with your animals and being their friend. I’ve taken my animals out after fairly long hiatus’s in work (new farm, failed first season – not a lot of work for horses!) and had things that could cause a wreck go wrong, whoaed them, and had them stand calmly. I think this is because I maintain a relationship of trust and friendship with them even when they’re not being worked much.

I described that story in a more detail here, for anyone interested…
http://www.newfarmer.ca/3/post/2011/12/four-abreast.html

[Gulo]

Another technique used to condition horses for plowing is to drag about a very large implement tire. I do this either behind the forecart or just riding on the tire. Aden Freeman of Ontario suggested the pull of the tire is similar in feel to the draft of a plow.

[Gulo]

Hey, BW – do these last have examples of contracts? This is the sort of nitty-gritty i’ll be needing.

And again, i totally agree apprenticing is the best way to go, but for me that means local – as in within an hour’s drive or less – or it’s a no-go. This is for two reasons: a) i’m a horse farmer (= it’s expensive and I can’t afford it!) and b) travel is at any rate one of our culture’s least sustainable elitist habits, and even in the days i could afford it i made up my mind to try to avoid doing it wherever possible on principle.

Once again, thanks for the leads…

[Gulo]

I noticed this old thread, and thought i’d chime in, in case anyone revisits it.

We run a horse-powered CSA. We deliver at a farm market, and sell excess produce and the shares not picked up.

I think getting the true value of food is a matter right now of access to a populace that is both a) educated, and b) relatively wealthy. This describes the folks we market to, mostly. We won’t sell locally, in fact (our market is a major centre of around a million an hour from our farm), because the people, ironically, don’t “get it” yet and still feel a dozen eggs, for instance, over $2 represents a personal insult. I say “ironically” as these are mostly the same people who would wholeheartedly agree with you what a shame it is the family farm can no longer survive.

Anyway, i do my best at market not to cave in to hagglers, in fact, I am known to say things like “yes it’s expensive, and in fact the price for you just went up” and “i’m a farmer, not a prostitute,” or “it’s less than a shot of whiskey – maybe you’d be happier hanging out at the tavern” although of course this is my final line of defense when it is obvious i’m up against truly impenetrable ignorance.

On the other hand, i find myself frequently discouraged by the numbers of farmers out there perfectly willing to prostitute themselves to the tune of two dollars a dozen for eggs, etc.

Thankfully, people are getting smarter about this issue.

[Gulo]

Thanks everyone, i’ll check out these leads!

[Gulo]

Hey Folks –

I should elaborate some more on my needs. Would any of the potential videos/dvd’s have info about the business end of horse logging – what types of arrangements are made with landowners, fees, etc. (I may look into the idea of doing woodlot stuff for others as well.)

Thanks again!

[Gulo]

@Michael Colby 21754 wrote:

Farmer Brown’s videos are good. But, better than that, find someone who’s doing it in your area and watch/help/learn in real time.

Thanks, Michael.

I agree with your comment about real time mentoring, and it’s always what i recommend first, too. There’s always the very real drawback, however, that with skills this esoteric and rare, this can be entirely unrealistic. Unless you have a lot of spare time and travel money.

I started green with mostly green horses, and just “had at ‘er” armed with books to learn from. I use them for the farm work now – don’t have a tractor. There was some very limited mentoring available (mostly by phone), and it was very valuable, but i think if i had relied on real time training to learn, i’d still be doing something else. It’s not an approach i’d recommend to the faint of heart, but for some folks, it’s probably this or never learn. Thanks to Lynn Miller and Doc Hammill especially, I never had a serious wreck.

Anyway, just to clarify, i’ve felled my share of trees and hauled just about everything other than trees in the woods with horses – just looking for a good source to fill in the blanks, supply the details rather than the basics.

Thanks for the lead, i’ll look up Farmer Brown. I also wonder if any of the loggers on here have anythng out?

[Gulo]

@jenjudkins 21745 wrote:

I don’t know, Gulo….Pinning this heifer seems like a huge feat! I hope it doesn’t come to that! Though if is comes down to me or her….you can bet I will win, lol:p

If she’s big enough to have horns, you might be wise to skip this step.

I think this was the stage where our ancestors invented the rope. 😉

[Gulo]

I’ve tamed yaks indeed by (once they are accustomed to my presence) getting them in the round pen and coaxing them with a bucket of grain. Once they’re eating out of the bucket, you can get the odd head scratch in. Once they get used to that, I lassoed them around the horns and tied them short to one of the posts. (I dropped the loop over the horns when they were used to eating out of and engaged in the bucket – if they were too cagey for this, I did it cowboy style. But some got quickly to the point where you could simply drop the loop over their horns and tighten it without them really caring.) Pet them with a stick all over, eventually moving in over the days and substituting your hand. Then you can work at getting them to lead by coaxing them after you on the halter and rope using the grain bucket and pressure/release. The grain of course gives them the added incentive to follow, getting used to the pressure/release in the meantime.

One or two, however, were untamable. And one was aggressive, charging me in the pen. Got rid of her.

Charging calves were in my experience a different story. Once they were accustomed to me in a setting where they didn’t feel cornered, and no longer particularly fearful, if they still insisted on charging, I then considered it perhaps a hierarchy thing. I responded to this by throwing them down and pinning them. One or two experiences like this and they understood where they ranked with me and quit the charging behavior. But i don’t think this would be productive with a calf that still had a lot of fear.

I agree with Clayfoot that you have to be boss. This is why tying them to the post seems to work. Let them know they are impotent to resist your advances, and that you’re gentle at the same time. I know of a guy who broke a large bison (to ride!) this way. Story goes it fought the rope for two weeks straight then resigned and he could do anything with it – including riding it to get his mail.

I have a lot more experience with horses than cattle, but i would say i find older cattle less tractable and more stubborn than horses.

[Gulo]

@lancek 21724 wrote:

Or The good timber runs out wich will be soon if we dont curb this thing soon! I know we are growing more now than ever before but what kind of quality other than highly managed wood lots are we growing! The north east still has pride in there woods but here in the midwest its still rape it and run !
They mow it down to 6 inch stups and then think it will grow back naturaly

It’s interesting that this is the same story regardless of natural commodity you’re considering. Which (among other things,) leads me to believe this system – and the issue is systemic, it is not “a problem with logging” or “a problem with agriculture” – is on its last legs.

Well, unsustainable is, after all, a terminal condition. And as at least one wise man put it, collapse is not just a problem – it’s also a solution. I suspect it is our only solution at this point. I’m in the same boat as you, Jac, and i suspect we have a better chance at coming out of the current predicament than many!

[Gulo]

@mitchmaine 21716 wrote:

hey gulo,
i wasn’t talking about competeing with skidders. just the opposite. i was talking about the reality of being caught in “big” farming or logging where production and volume are the game, and big checks usually go to the banks and mortgage holders and your left with a weeks pay same size as the horse farmer and ten years later when your equipment is finally paid for you are the proud owner of a bunch of rusted, beat up machinery no one wants to buy.

I getcha, believe me. The whole model is a dead-end street, I believe, and will disappear as soon as cheap, abundant oil ceases to be our reality. Not that I can say I have the answer to a way out right now – I don’t. Except don’t enter the trap and if you’re in it, sell out? I dunno. Would you not then have the capital and then some to try something on a more human scale? Only speculating here.

As for the show’s portrayal of horselogging… I guess i wouldn’t put too much stock, nor angst, in how the mainstream portrays anything. They are catering to such a low common denominator. The mainstream is beyond hope, in my estimation, and what’s more, quite possibly irrelevant.

[Author]

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