[Scott G]

Great energy everyone! Now once again let’s focus.

First, Thanks Jason for the release. I think that it will be very telling based on what type of response we have.

Second, I agree that creating formal overhead should probably be done sooner than later. More to the point, My intention for structure is what is it going to look like? Officers, sub-committe chairs, etc.. I think it might be better to see what type of response and reaction we get from the general population that is directed to the DAPFI site and see which stars rise to the top. We are, in essence, a formative and steering committee to get the architecture of this effort layed out. I welcome additional folks that may wish to take a more active role in the future. I am going to follow up with an additional request for contacts on the “Big 3” forums to hopefully generate more of a response. I’ll then take what I have, put together an e-mail list, and post an invite to this effort. On the point of electing officers, I personally would like to wait to see what type of response we get but I’ll leave it to you folks. I am fine riding herd on our steering committee but am not at a point right now where I want to automatically accept a nomination. But please, do not take that as an indicator of my involvement and drive to make this thing work. I would just like to see how many other committed folks are out there that might rise to the occassion. “Remember the Alamo!” is a quote that comes to mind when describing my level of committment to this effort..

Third, The last couple of posts are somewhat troubling to me. I fully understand that we want to monitor, improve, and enhance our culture and profession. Remember, however, the genesis of this effort a few months back. It was decided to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Looking at the situation Jim & Simon mention, how about half-full rather than half-empty. Let’s describe an opportunity to bring people along in their skills and practices rather than categorize them outright. All trade groups have a quality control mechanism for their membership. That, however, is prefaced by training programs and standards of practice. As a small fraction of 1% of currently active harvesting systems we can’t necessarily afford to be exclusive. There is power in numbers and quality assurance can be achieved at the same time. Look at all of the certification programs, it is a target for ‘up & comers’ to aspire to.

Fourth, Those of you that stepped up to the plate for the focus groups, first off, thank you. Now taking it to the next step please start a working thread regarding your particular focus area to generate some input. I’ll throw it out to the group at large whether we want to keep it on the core groups forum or put it out on the public site. I could see pluses and minuses for both options.

We’re getting momentum now my friends, lets keep it goin’…

[Scott G]

@J-L 13231 wrote:

One thing that bothers me about the picture is that you don’t have a mule hooked in there somewhere. Nice looking team in spite of that.

You do such a great job of neutralizing your long-ear bias, Wes! Problem with mules is that most of them are too smart to log… 😉

[Scott G]

Jason,
Why don’t you write it up. I am sure you will put a good face on it. First to volunteer means being first on the plate….

[Scott G]

Donn,

Ditto to what Taylor mentioned. I use to get a lot of bid requests that turned into forest management consults. Ask a few direct questions when you have people on the phone. If they have a clear objective it is easier to sort out. If people are just curious and looking for info volunteer to visit their site for a consult fee of whatever one hour of your hourly normal rate would be. Even though it won’t completely cover your costs it will help offset them and most people I have found are willing to cough up that much.

Market yourself to the fullest and in the best possible light. Do not just “buy” work. Hold out for jobs that not only will cover your costs but make a little in the process. It is easy for people to put a lower value on themselves when they first start out and possibly get themselves into a jam. Adjusting your hourly service rate to reflect just starting out maybe; if you’re getting paid for volume there is absolutely no reason to discount your price as you are getting out the material regardless.

Good luck, have fun, and be safe.

Take care,
Scott

[Scott G]

Doin’ OK…. didn’t do a faceplant or puke yesterday. Won’t be doing any serious limbing/bucking for a while so we’ll see. Haven’t put the tip of my bar into my boots for about 17 years so we’ll see how it goes…:o

Being someone that is used to having one field of vision; having four is a bit disconcerting…

Might have to start putting pennies in the piggy bank labeled “Lasik”… so I can get by having multiple pairs of stylin’ reading spectacles like you “well seasoned” woodsmen (or is that kiln dried & case hardened?:D).

[Scott G]

Joshua,
Small cabins are fun to build. Being small, you have a lot of options. I built the barn http://www.draftanimalpower.com/showthread.php?t=1821&page=2 using an Alaskan mill and Beam Machine. Nothing fancy, I had to half-cant the logs to acommodate half lap joints to make up for the fact I had short trees from a poor site. Alaskan mills work OK but you want a saw with a minimum displacement of 70cc and use ripping chain. Kerfs are pretty wide and wasteful but hey, its a heck of a lot cheaper than a Wood-Mizer. Hiring/trading with someone who has a band mill might be a better option though if you have more resources than time. Even using the correctly filed sharp chain; chain saw milling is very slow..

Donn is correct when talking about heating a log structure, it doesn’t have the R value of a well insulated timber frame/traditional dimensional building. The ability of the logs to absorb and release heat is something that those structures do not have, however. They take a while to heat up from the start but once they are they stay warm for much longer provided they are tight.

What Donn mentioned about zoning is definitely a heads-up. Depending on where you live you may be able to build something that falls into a “shed” category and doesn’t necessarily need a permit. Out here we can get by with a 10×16 (160sqft) or less as a shed.

Have fun!

[Scott G]

Yes

Scott

[Scott G]

Let’s throw this out to the rest of the core group.

Everyone, do we want to launch this out to the general public now to create more interest and gain momentum?

Yes or No?

[Scott G]

Looks good on this end,Carl.

[Scott G]

Hi everyone. I’ve been buried in the woods the last several days and my old ‘puter crashed for good.

Man, what a great dialogue you folks have been having on the two threads.

I need to digest all of this a bit and then weigh in, meanwhile please continue to talk amongst yourselves. It seems as though the “mixed” system for harvesting conversation has resurfaced.

Lets see if we can get this thread on track to see how we want to get our networking aspect on track with some of the possibilities that have been suggested by Carl and others.

Carl, could you elaborate on how DAP could help with web presence and what that might look like? Looking to you for guidance on this due to your stellar efforts running this site.

[Scott G]

@TaylorJohnson 12985 wrote:

This is a great , great , tool this site is. We do have some limitations because of the draft animals but we do have a lot more advantages…

I’m a glass half-full kinda guy. I think our opportunities are limitless versus preconceived limitations! 😉

-Scott

[Scott G]

Happy Thanksgiving to Carl and everyone else as well. Enjoy friends & family and take care my friends.

Scott

[Scott G]

Love the analogy, Jason. It is very true that in order to move forward with certain product driven actions we will need funding. It is the classic cart before the horse. There are private groups (NGOs’) out there that are very involved in financially helping sustainably based, grass roots organizations that are focused on a specific, viable cause. In order to look at that NGO funding as an option, however, you need a detailed plan; in essence a business plan. I am sure Jason has a handle on this with HHF.

There are many things we can do that are very proactive and productive that cost nothing more than time.

Initiating and prioritizing an operational plan that would be a component of a “business plan” would be a great start.

Receiving the Draft Powered Forestry contact list I sent out to many of you would be a great follow up. To date I have only received 4. Those of you who do not have the spreadsheet, e-mail me and I’ll send you a copy. I would post it on this forum but unfortunately it does not support .xls files.

Taking Carl up on his offer from a couple of months ago on possibly running the website through DAP may be a good start. We could just register the domain and park it on DAP as well.

I am not saying its time to jump in the deep end. I am saying we need a cohesive, coherent plan before we do to lessen our chance of drowning.

[Scott G]

Motion carries…

Welcome to Draft Animal Powered Forestry, International everyone!! 🙂

[Scott G]

I use fabric rope instead of wire rope. With a background in arboriculture, alot of the rigging gear I used has a great application for horse logging. The rigging rope, referred to as “bull rope” is 3/4 -1″ d and has phenomenal strength. I have never broken one, even with shock loads in the 10,000# range. In the same system, rigging blocks with “whoopie slings” are extremely tough and light. Great for redirects and doubled up can get you the physical block advantage. Fabric rope is a lot easier to work with, doesn’t kink, and you won’t get painful wire jaggers like you will with wire rope.

There are some new products out there that are being used to replace wire rope. One brand I have used is Amsteel Blue. It was initially developed for tug boats as it has the distinct advantage of being able to float. It is stronger than steel. Pricey but more than worth it. I replaced the wire rope on a couple of my skidders with it and it changed the whole outlook on dragging cable. The stuff weighs a fraction of wire rope and by the end of the day you are in a lot better shape than if you have been dragging cable all day. My choker setters developed a whole new outlook on life! 😀

All of this stuff is available from an outfit like Baileys.

[Author]

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