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- November 29, 2009 at 10:08 am in reply to: For possible sub group and phone number for Lancek #55644
simon lenihan
Participantlancek,
It is possible to build a bigger horsedrawn forwarder, fit a crane capable of handling 4000lb and connect the hydraulics to drive motors in the back wheels to assist the horses. In order to do this everything would have to be built heavy duty and ultimately it would weigh alot more, you would need more horses to pull it and it would cost alot more fuel to run it. In big timber alot of markets want longer lengths, 24 to 30 feet which a forwarder cannot handle, i think we should be looking at developing methods of moving these larger lengths where maybe total suspension is the answer.
simon lenihanNovember 29, 2009 at 9:31 am in reply to: Tragedy!!!Includes discussion of dramatic experiences, and blinders vs. open bridles #55713Participantpity dotty did not kick that dog 10 feet in the air, it certantly would not be as cocky next time out. we hunt with dogs and all our dogs are stocked trained but should one attack an animal it would be pushing daizys before long.
simon lenihanParticipantlancek,
The vast majority of horseloggers in europe including myself have from time to time hired in mechanised forwarders for exactly the reasons you have mentioned. The problem arises when these forwarders leave the forest tracks and make new tracks through the forest, this could be down to greed or simply timber prices have dropped and production has to rise to compenstate for the loss of revenue, it is not acceptable in any form but i have seen it so often over the years. Horsedrawn forwarders have there limitations, 1000 board feet, 16 / 18 foot logs and lifting capacity of 2000lb, they were developed for thinning conifer woodlands in scandinavia, these forwarders can not compete with the bigger mechanised forwarders nor were they meant to. With larger timber and longer extraction distances there would be a need for the forwarders you have described, i know alot of horseloggers will not agree but i think it is still good the fact that horses would be used to extract to track side and keep the machines out of the forest. Lets take the czech republic as an example, 1700 full time horse loggers using 2700 horses, these loggers extract short distances to forestry tracks for secondary extraction by forwarder, it is a system that works for them and keeps alot of people in employment. i think most horseloggers given a choice would like to keep the job as simple as possible, team of horses and chainsaw but due to markets / tree species /prices / geography we as horseloggers end up applying ourselfs to the situation at hand. Anyone working draft animals today are doing it by choice not because they have to and therefore i think we can have a very sucessfull organization.
simon lenihanParticipantThis is a mechanised forwarder, i thought you were talking about horse drawn forwarder. A horse drawn forwarder would be 2 to 3 times lighter than this piece of kit and a fraction of the price, remember that most of the damage in forestry is caused by forwarders and not the processors.
simon lenihanParticipantbergan wheel sledge from norway, capable of moving very large logs.
simon lenihanParticipantsimilar in alot of ways to the bergan and ulvins arch from scandinavia, just wondering if the shafts are articulated.
simon lenihanParticipantThe answer is yes to all.
simon lenihanParticipantyes
no.
simon lenihanParticipanti will also go with carls statement.
simon lenihanParticipantTo promote, enviromentaly, low impact, low carbon footprint forest management using draft animal power timber harvesting methods. I agree with rick that appropriate technology should be used as an objective.
simon lenihanParticipantbelgian ardenners with jerk line set up.
simon lenihanParticipantjohn / josh, your standard lines will not do, the german and french collars are designed for the jerk line set up, i will send some pics to carl to post, you will see from these how it works. A line goes from bit to bit which comes back roughly as far as the horses withers, this has a ring on which can slide up and down the rope, the single line is connected to this ring and can be what ever length you want. Slide the ring to the left give one jerk with the command to go left, slide it to the right and give several short jerks with the command to go right. You will notice on the collars shown that the single line comes through a ring on top of the collar on the right hand side standing behind the horse and through a hame ring lower down on the left hand side again standing behind the horse, this raises the line off of the horses back and allows you to have full control.
simon lenihanParticipantscott,
I just think it has been a hard time for alot of horseloggers the way the markets are at present and yes we do need to try and get the ball moving again. However there are very few horseloggers on this forum from europe and i am not sure how to get them involved, for example a recent survey in the czech republic showed that there were 1700 full time horseloggers using 2700 horses, we need to get large groups like this on board, we need to speak to FECTU and other organizations in other european countries to get their thoughts.
simon lenihanParticipantour stallions and one of our mares work on the jerk line, this is common in europe, we find it alot safer working this way in tight situations. Joshua bet you would have your gelding going in one week, start in a wide open space where you can move to either side of the horse, once mastered move into the woods.
simon lenihanParticipantThat looks like a french ardennes and a very bad example i must say, bad legs, too much feather, pigeon neck and overweight. I will send some pics to carl to post of belgian ardennes, swedish ardennes and french ardennes.
simon lenihan - AuthorPosts