[Carl Russell]

Yard Hitch developed an electric hydraulic 3 pth cart, using deep cell battery like golf carts and an electric motor as on snowplows to run the hydraulics. It works great, and can lift anytime you want as long as battery capacity. Beside forks, it will also take any category one 3pth implement. See pix in gallery. This is pretty expensive, but the concept could be modified by a handy innovator. Carl

[Carl Russell]

For all things Oxen contact Alyson (Huppe) Bronnenburg at New England Ox Supply , 32 Tom Berry Rd., Strafford, NH 03884 603-269-7903

Or visit their website at http://www.newenglandoxsupply.com or e-mail at neoxsply@worldpath.net

For Yokes made by Tim Huppe of Farmington, NH Contact Berry Brook Ox Supply at their website http://www.berrybrookoxsupply.com

[Carl Russell]

Well, no it’s not stupid, but I just think that what horned animals do with their horns is what they are supposed to do. If you watch them, horned animals relate to the world with their horns. It only seems natural to make allowances for that in the way we work around them. Sure it’s easier (for us) without them, same as a cow without a tail. We do many things to animals in the name of ease, and call it husbandry, but from my experience, having a few less animals and understanding their nature seem more reasonable solutions. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Biological Woodsman;889 wrote:

My thoughts come from the 30 years experience of being a forester…

…There are some good foresters in this world, but not many…..

….look into the Forest Guild as an alternative to the Society of American Foresters…..

…..If “Foresters” had the answer to what is sustainable forestry then no one would be asking the question, because we would already be practicing it…..

…. Again this is a generalization and there are individuals that have practiced great forestry….

…..Our approach does attempt to upgrade the education of the ground level workers to understand the benefits of restorative forestry. It differentiates the Biological Woodmen from the horse logger or mechanized logger as a way of changing the system from the bottom up. The main difference is that it promotes a sense of community and ownership of the future forest by creating a workforce that is superior in the practice of “restorative forestry”….

…This is a very complex and worthy set of issues that we may continue to discuss on this tiny forum…..

…. I would be happy to work with a forester that could sharpen a chainsaw and drive a pair of horses as well as Carl and probably you….

Right on Brother,
I’ve got to correct my last statement, I actually brought horse-logging to my forestry. It was obvious to me even in school that forestry had to be about an ecological process, and about responsibility. It was also obvious that we were being spoon fed industrial rationalizations for the principles that were being promoted.

As you have mentioned, I too have met several “farmers” who have done superb work in their forests, because they took responsibility for their choices.

I never liked the idea of administering management and harvest for someone else. It is very difficult and costly, and it creates a barrier so that the administrator can shift responsibility onto the market, or the operator, or even the landowner.

I would much rather sharpen my saw, than clean my paint-gun.

I am appalled by the countless properties that I have visited, having several harvests, under management by locally renowned foresters, with nothing to show for it, the exact composition and stand structure that they had thirty years ago. This is forestry?????

This may be a tiny forum, and it may be several years before we can pass each other on a skid trail, but this is where the truth is.

You know it, I know it, and so many others here know it!!! We just take the time now to connect the dots.

Any person who can see the forest around the trees, can understand what we are talking about. The industry still provides the finances, but they have no business controlling the resource, or the educational opportunities.

A comment to Luke! Obviously you must have friendly relations with the people you are studying with, but feel good about taking this chance to advance your clear understanding, so that your vision will be the resource that it is. There are several of us out here cheering you on.

By the way, I alienated many of my fellow forestry students by rejecting the Society from the get-go. Never been a “Belonger”. The Forest Guild has a much better perspective, and has gone a long way toward facilitating a change in business as usual.
Carl

[Carl Russell]

And they will again!!! Carl:):D:eek::rolleyes:

[Carl Russell]

Sorry but I haven’t got the resources in front of me to give you the author’s name, but the book “Ten Acres Enough” does an excellent job of laying out a small diversified land-base such as you describe. Lynn Miller has long championed that title, and I have heard he is undertaking a reprint. That is just the tip of the ice-burg of your question, but perhaps a good place to start. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Unfair? Advantage yes. The unfairness is de-horning them to begin with. We keep our milk cows with horns. Of course they can be dangerous with their horns, but trust me you won’t get hit too many times before you figure out how to stay out of the way. As for the other cows? It’s been that way for a few hundred thousand years, they can handle it.

Training the horns can be a solution. We also use horn knobs. Most often seen on oxen, they serve the purpose of blunting the end of the horn. And they look good.

I used a horn weight to train a horn once. You may be able to find one through this forum. Also if you scrape the horn with a knife on the side that you want the horn to turn away from, you can induce a curve that will be less dangerous.

I’m sure Howie has some wisdom about horn shaping. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Not that it would be appropriate, but a draft horse ought to be able to carry 200 lbs on the jack saddle of a D-ring harness. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Greetings Amanda, I think if you look at the oxen thread under “driving oxen” you will find discussion to this point.

However I will toss some stuff back at you. First I think it is important for you to think about why you need to drive them from behind. If they are difficult to deal with, then you will gain much more by working out in front of them until they are smoother, and follow your direction and commands better. This is also, I feel, the best way to train them to be driven from behind. As they develop a consistency of execution you will be able to step back and start following them, as you increase their ability to respond as well to voice as to goad.
Good luck, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I appreciate your offer, but I got it. I think a snow shovel is very probably the tool I’ve handle for more hours than just about any other during my life. My first self-employment was as an 11 year-old I shoveled walkways for several older women in the village where we lived. Self-employed, but my dad wouldn’t let me take any money.
I too am pretty good at it. Just spent four hours today shoveling (busting crust first) 3 feet off the roof of a hill top summer home of out-of-staters. You know as back-breaking as it was, I was working with a 270* panorama of central VT with sharp ridges and valleys, watching the lake-affect plooms blow in, up there all by myself with the ravens tumbling and calling overhead. These skills and motivations can provide us with the most amazing opportunities sometimes. Carl

[Carl Russell]

I finally got out the wood book, and it says that Palm trees do not yield wood that has any value to wood workers. So make of that what you will. Good luck in your new venture. Carl

[Carl Russell]

Well after reading all these posts, I just laid in bed last night listening to it pour, not able to sleep ’cause they were all inside and I hadn’t been able to free up the time to shovel the barn roof. The first thing I did today was clear off three and a half feet from my stable roof. My heart goes out to all of you, Carl

[Carl Russell]

I have both hard and soft cover books. Both of mine have 386 pages. They appear to be exactly the same book. It is an excellent resource. Carl

[Carl Russell]

I agree with much of your premise. I will however throw out that it is time that we encourage horse loggers to gain the skills to provide the best forest management principles. We are low production operations therefore we have an excellent opportunity to advance quality as a standard. I too have brought forestry management to my horse-logging. I found it to be an appropriate way to promote forest improvement as the primary product, and to tell you the truth, there are some foresters out there who value good forestry, but I see little value in trying to cultivate relationships with anyone who has to be convinced that an improved stand is more important than a high stumpage check. There are too many compromises in standard silviculture in the name of short-term economics. In the first chapter of Smiths Silviculture book (the standard at many of our finest universities) he explains that ecological and economic goals do not mutually support each other, and that his book is written with economic objectives in mind.

We need to make sure that someday we CAN say all horse logging is good logging. What have we got to lose??? Carl

[Carl Russell]

Jim, Homeopathic remedies work just as effectively on livestock as on people. You just need to be sure that the symptoms are accurate, and the dose would be probably more like 6 pills. Dr. Edgar Sheaffer from Palmyra, PA has done a lot of work with livestock homeopathy, especially horses, I don’t have his web site, but if you google him you should get some really good info. Carl

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