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Carl Russell
ModeratorRod, Check with Tim Huppe at Berry Brook Ox Supply. http://www.berrybrookoxsupply.com, Carl
ModeratorI just started a logging job today. I had to get some trails broken out through this snow before it gets rained on and crusty. Turns out the main skid trail doubles as a VAST trail. I’m sure I’ll find out soon whether or not I’m Anti-Fun. Matter of fact four sleds went by today. They didn’t even know I was there until they were almost past me. Then you want to hear them shout, “that guy’s logging with horses”! Like the woods were put there just for sledding!!! Carl
ModeratorBerry Brook Ox Supply in Farmington NH. http://www.berrybrookoxsupply.com
ModeratorI totally agree that the teamsters have to come to the equation with the skills and commitment to make the horse be what they want. I also agree that it is not cost effective to produce a working horse in this market. I have no reason to sell a horse once they are working well anyway. The point I would like to make is that just because a horse weighs 1800 lbs and wears a #8 shoe doesn’t make it a work horse. The last time I looked for a horse to buy, I looked at thirty horses before I found the one I wanted. I was ashamed of the prices people wanted for horses that haven’t seen a harness in months. One fellow wanted $2500 for a 2 year old, and he was going on telling me what I was going to need to do to train him to lift his feet. I bought a 3 year-old with no harness experience for $1200. Because I knew that I could put in the time needed to get a good horse.
We need to raise the bar of expectations for people who are selling horses. This is not easy, but buyers should expect more from a horse seller. I’m not talking about the mysterious concept of trained to work, but just simply handled. I know from experience that most of us are buying the best horse we can find and busting our butts, using skills and guts to get the working horse we want. This is beautiful, it is the craft, but it also allows for horse after horse to be brought into the market with little or no handling. They breed ’em and feed ’em, and we buy them.There is no need of it, and as more people are interested in working horses, there needs to be a greater awareness among horse people of the level of expectation buyers should be bringing to the seller. CarlModeratorWelcome. Looking forward to visiting with you too. Carl
ModeratorGreetings. Great to have you on board. Carl
ModeratorI have been repairing my own harnesses for years, but have had to contract with leather-makers for traces. Last year I bought an old cobblers sewing machine with the hopes of improving my capabilities. Carl
ModeratorLoose hay tends to “het out” better because there is better air flow, no hot pockets. I have pushed it, as you have to sometimes, and had a steam hole form at the top of the stack in the mow. There was some temp but nothing dangerous. I burrowed down in to see what was going on. I was told by some that grew up doing it that it happens, and perhaps regularly. Loose hay, because it not crimped has, more moisture in the stems, so there always is some that has to “het out”. In all the hay I put in, I never had any musty or moldy spots. There was often dust, but never mold. Carl
ModeratorJean great idea. Perfect fit for the forum. I respect you respecting us, but I must caution you against being too cautious. As long as we are polite and respectful there will be no interference in the individual expression and utilization of this forum. Carl
ModeratorJ-L there are two easy answers about stumpage rate. First there may be a county or state forestry agency that keeps track of recently paid stumpage values for different species. This would give you a good place to start in terms of understanding what the market is providing. The other is straight line math Mill Price $/MBF – Trucking Exp. $/MBF – Logging Exp. $/MBF = Stumpage $/MBF. MBF= thousand board feet. Mill price and trucking are easy to find out. Logging Exp. is where the points made by Jason come in. I consider that I am providing a two-fold service to the landowners by improving their forest resource, and by marketing their timber asset. Fixed and variable expenses have to be considered, basically what you need to make in a day, dollar wise, to cover your expenses. Then experience will help you determine the volume that you are likely to be able to harvest in an average day, (if there ever is one).
All this aside, you should be able to recognize yourself as a professional, providing professional services. Low impact, aesthetics, eco-forestry, whatever, can be important aspects of what you can bring to the woodland, but it is for your professional capabilities that they should contract with you. In other words what I often say is that the work you do should advance your presentation, it should be something that you can say truly reflects the kind of work you want to do. Just taking a job to satisfy a landowners object can lead to mediocrity. It’s not to say that a job for income is not a good thing, and I have done several, which is why I can say that if you can see a way for you to promote your capabilities as part of the Logging Exp, then I think you will find greater return. CarlModeratorRod, I found an old Cloth-type fire hose years ago in a barn sale or auction or something, and I cut about 3-4 feet of that and slip it over the chain back by the heels. It seems to hold up for quite a while, and it is flexible enough that I can coil the chain around the tops of the bows on top of the yoke to carry it when we’re not pulling something. Carl
ModeratorAnti-fun?? Sound like this could be a politically incorrect answer either way. Whenever someone tried to put words in my mouth, I usually throw-up:eek:!! Carl
ModeratorEric, for 10-12 years I put in loose hay with my horses. I don’t anymore as I am married to a grazing specialist now, and we have more animals to pasture then I did then, so all the grass is eaten on the stalk. We buy our winter hay now. But through the 80-90’s I mowed, tedded raked and put in 500-750 bales each summer, loose. I fed 2 horses, a pair of oxen, a milk cow, and a heifer or steer for about half the winter. I don’t have a lot of hay-land, so I just cut what I grew. I would mow for a couple of hours in the afternoon after woods work in the morning. Then over the next couple of days fit in tedding with what ever else, including woods work. I did the work all by myself, so I never cut a lot of hay at any one time, working to get it in in good shape before cutting more. When it was dry, usually 3 days, I would make the biggest windrows I could with a side delivery rake, then on foot I would build stacks with a pitch fork, this way the hay was concentrated for pick up, but also in case of rain the stacks were already built, and could withstand a couple of days of rain, where windrows would get ruined. Then I would move loads to the barn on the truck or on a hay-wagon with the animals. By building the load in layers, i could get a lot on. I had a mow in my neighbors barn that I could toss the hay down into, which was great. As the hay mounded up I would spread it out to the corners and pack it in.
If I kept track of my time against the value of the hay I never earned much more than $10/hr, which doesn’t go that far on the surface, but on top of that I was exposing my horses to diverse working experiences, getting to know my land, observing the results of successive years of field work, getting to know the feed, making the feed I wanted, getting to work my horse, spending glorious steamy summer days working hard on work of my own initiative, etc. Loose hay is fantastic feed. Compared to hay that has had its guts squeezed out then cut and pounded into bales, it shines with sunlight, bends like grass, and smells like summer. My animals loved eating it, I loved working in it in the winter. Like so many thing we do with horses the money thing is tight. If I had wanted to do more, I would have needed help and equipment, but I didn’t need to go through the expense of help or equipment just to make more hay. I just did what I could do, and was satisfied, HAPPY. I also only got 2 good cuts, the first during the second half of June, because I had to wait for warm dry days and nights. Sometimes during Aug-Sept my second cut would get wet all over just from dew. It was good feed, not the scientific top in nutrition, but I wasn’t trying to get that. CarlModeratorRod, I use a bitch link ( key eye grab) on the staple with the ring. Then I have a chain that extends to a stride’s length at the heel (walking easily without clipping the heels), which also has a bitch link at the end. These links have a ring built into them, as well as a grab, then I have whatever I need to go over a hook, pin, or to grab a chain. Then when I’m logging I use the same choker chains that I use the rest of the time. This way I never have to change the length of the working chain. I do have enough extra though (about a foot)in case the chain needs to be lengthened or played with for some reason. Carl
ModeratorNo tractor here, just well shod horses and ambitious teamster! Carl
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